Vote Labour you cynics, or you'll get a Tory government.

"I don't believe you."

"Judas", the cry goes out against MPs. But to quote Bob Dylan: "I don't believe you."

There is a double think at the heart of this debate on MP's morality. A lot of moral and immoral people are hopping mad about moats and duck islands and second homes and then you ask them:

"What's the solution?"

And they say:

"Well, regulation and punishment."

And then you ask them:

"Well wouldn't that destroy trust? Why can't we have another shot at an honour system?"

And the response is:

"No, it's human nature. You can't trust people to claim expenses honestly. Everyone given the chance, fiddles their expenses."

"Really? Well if that is the case then why are you so annoyed? If, in your philosophy, it is only human nature, then why are you so damn indignant about the MPs claiming extra in expenses?"

So at the heart of this debate are cynics having their cake and eating it. People who don't believe in honour systems frothing at the mouth because MPs misuse honour systems. How can one take these cynics seriously?

Clearly the whole row has been blown out of all proportion - it's a mystery to people outside Britain, to Italians and the French and even the Germans, why claiming for duck islands has come to the fore of British politics. There are very few cases of real corruption in the whole scandal. This whole thing is a strategy of the Tory party to start mud slinging in the hope that more mud sticks to Labour party than to the Tories.

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Most of the problem with New Labour in the first place was that they behaved like Tories. Their policies were watered down Tory policies. ...How can you show your disapproval for New Labour's Tories by voting for the real thing - for the people who will privatise education and the NHS?

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And the Tories seem to have done their calculations well. They have, irresponsibly, whipped up anger against our very democracy in the hope that they will win out. I don't support Brown, but do I give a flying fuck if he is telegenic or not or if he appears on youtube or if he has charisma? I don't give a damn about that superficial stuff. Do you? Celebrity politics? Yuck.

Those of you who are so indignant about Labour, are you Tories? Who the hell are you? Is it enough just to vote against Labour - like reactive kneejerks? Most of the problem with New Labour in the first place was that they behaved like Tories. Their policies were watered down Tory policies. But at least they were Keynsians - of a sort.

How can you show your disapproval for New Labour's Tories by voting for the real thing - for the people who will privatise education and the NHS. It doesn't make sense. The only thing you will prove by voting Cameron is that we are a nation that allows itself to be manipulated into stupidity. At the core of the Tory agenda is to take us back to the "golden era" of Edwardian world where everyone knew their place, to a new life of "Upstairs Downstairs". They want to reverse the gains of 1945. They will destroy the welfare state.

So many of you think you are being so "clever" and principled by voting against Labour. But if your complaints are about our uncomfortable closeness to US foreign policy, about tuition fees and privatisations and deregulation and all that crap, then no you are not acting intelligently if you vote Tory. How on earth can voting Tory put an end to all that? It will amplify it and make it a thousand times worse.

There is an awful double speak to a lot of what the posters say on these threads. Labour is awful - so vote Tory. What absolute nonsense.